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Runner vs. Bike, Who Wins?


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#16 NextLizard_Tiger Paul_*

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 11:00 AM

QUOTE (Joe D. @ Jun 16 2006, 11:29 AM)
Actually, I think the county owns the bridge, but either way there just isn't enough money to replace it at the moment, and believe me they'd like to fix or replace it, 'cause it's falling apart.  If the stingy tax-payers would get off their @sses we might be able to maintain our infrastructure a little better.  (I probably just opened a whole new can of worms).  happy.gif


Good point... the county can't even fund the new jail right now! laugh.gif

But I live and work in Washington County so I just use and abuse everything in Multnomah County and don't pay (as much) anyway.... wink.gif

#17 NextLizard_Joe T._*

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (Torrey @ Jun 13 2006, 08:56 PM)
Yes, there are always conflicts when it comes to traffic and right-of-way. 


The ORS regarding the treatment of bicycles as vehicles is pretty clear: peds have the right of way.

As for the rest of the comments; how about taking the attitude that bikes and peds share some common spaces; multiuse paths such as the Eastbank esp. require slower traffic to stay right; to the best of my knowledge there aren't yet speed limits on it yet, but I would assume at some point there will be as use grows.

I'm not sure what to say about the comments some of you made about heckling and intimidating cyclists. If you are startled by a cyclist unintentionally, check your fight or flight mechanism; you don't have to revert into an over-revved 16 year-old; if the cyclist you mess with was a meth tweaker who knows might happen if confront him/her; if it escalates you might regret it. Frankly, cyclists have it bad enough on roads that are clearly marked for bikes, I get called faggot at least once a week. Hillarious.

I've ridden to Duniway on my bike from my place downtown for a run/bike workout, and someone in the club had the gaul to ask me, "what all this girly bike stuff" was; dude, it's lycra, you're wearing it too.

Regarding the elbow someone used on a cyclist. Well, that one is pretty clear, you *intentionally* assaulted another person, not just a "cyclist". Depending on how much that person wanted to escalate, you could be looking at a low-level misdemeanor.

Bicycling Magazine (Rodale press) again voted this city the most bike friendly in U.S. over places like Boulder, Seattle and San Diego. Trek built a cool new commuter bike called the "Trek Portland" and had their product roll-out event at the Bike Gallery.

One of the members of this club and the Portland community has ridden cross-country and written at least one book (that I know of) about Bike Touring (yes, I've read it)..

Eleven years ago when I left the military and *joined*(yes, paid for) the Finish Line Sports Multi-Sport club, did track workouts alongside Clarence, MarkieMo and probably others (Andrew?) it was to give other sports a try, and to learn from people who had dabbled and/or competed in other sports, in this case cycling.

I think maybe a little different attitude is in order, there are a ton of people who ride in the club and I think upwards of 10+ people who've done an Ironman (that might 10% of your current membership).

Bottom-line:

- peds have right of way in the context of peds vs. vehicles as defined by the ORS

- another person doesn't have the right to assault another person, this isn't how adults solve problems

- with multi-use paths all around the metro area seeing more use, folks need to be a little more cognizant of sharing the space that allows all of us access to the city, and access to a safe place to recreate

#18 timknox

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 01:10 PM

Did you all see the article in today's Oregonian on bike boulevards. How great would it be if you could get all around the city on a bike without battling cars?

#19 NextLizard_Tiger Paul_*

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 01:28 PM

QUOTE (timknox @ Jun 16 2006, 02:10 PM)
Did you all see the article in today's Oregonian on  bike boulevards.  How great would it be if you could get all around the city on a bike without battling cars?


I was just about to post something about that! It was on the front page of the print copy... certainly it would be great if we had more of those options and PDX is leading the nation in bike friendliness but in the meantime we need to all do our best to be cognizant of others and observe etiquette and the law. It's up to both runners and cyclists to self police our own and not be afraid to confront others who are ignorant or just plain don't care. Preferably non-violently... laugh.gif

#20 kelbelle

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 02:36 PM

I still think that cyclists need to be aware that riding on the sidewalk on the Sellwood Bridge at 25 mph is not acceptable. I know some people in the club who have done triathlons and even Ironman events, and none of them would put the runners on the Sellwood in such a dangerous position. (They also ALWAYS wear their helmet and follow the rules of the road)
That's the point...we're not bashing bike riders, we're bashing people who don't respect others. I'm not advocating assault, but if someone needs a reminder to slow down I think it's everyone's responsibility to vocalize it.

And on another note--it's really frustrating when you see a cyclist zooming downtown through traffic with no helmet. Or no lights.
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#21 NextLizard_Joe T._*

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (kelbelle @ Jun 16 2006, 03:36 PM)
That's the point...we're not bashing bike riders...

it's really frustrating when you see a cyclist zooming downtown through traffic with no helmet. Or no lights.


This thread is a rant session for runners who don't want cyclists riding on the path across the bridge; of all the times I've run across the bridge, I've always seen bikes and peds peacefully co-exist, that's how it should be.

Some other points..

-Someone on the forum admitted and boasted on the forum that he assaulted another person; uncool, and get this, against the law. Another boasted about a time he/she(?) chased a cyclist on foot; not impressed; and again super uncool.

-Under the ORS wearing a helmet isn't a requirement, lights are in certain conditions. Caveat, if you're 16 or younger you have to wear helmet.

-Wearing a helmet, (or not) is a personal choice if you're of age to make it.

-Bikes are actually allowed on the road over the Sellwood Bridge, who would actually be brave enough to ride their bikes over it during rush-hour? It's a multi-use path; people need to walk their bikes so long as their is a ordinance on the books that requires to do so

#22 Torrey

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 04:02 PM

QUOTE (Joe T. @ Jun 16 2006, 01:10 PM)
I'm not sure what to say about the comments some of you made about heckling and intimidating cyclists. If you are startled by a cyclist unintentionally, check your fight or flight mechanism; you don't have to revert into an over-revved 16 year-old


I don't think anyone is condoning or encouraging the heckling of cyclists (or vice versa). There was a comment made that sounded a little more along the lines of the "over-revved 16-year old" solution, but without knowing the exact context of that situation, I can't say whether it was someone on a bike intentionally trying to startle a runner (which of course just led to a silly retaliation) or whether there was some other variable at play (for example, the biker nearly gets clipped by a car and yells at the vehicle and this event coincidentally occured as the bike and car were going by some runners who were startled while in their own little world).

QUOTE (Joe T. @ Jun 16 2006, 01:10 PM)
Regarding the elbow someone used on a cyclist. Well, that one is pretty clear, you *intentionally* assaulted another person, not just a "cyclist". Depending on how much that person wanted to escalate, you could be looking at a low-level misdemeanor.


Once again, it's all context. I was there. I saw the whole situation - FROM my friggin' bike. There is certainly no excuse for "assault", but the situation was either stick out your arm or use your bony body to absorb the impact a bike. If it were an equivalent situation involving a car and you didn't jump on the hood, Wynston would have been underneath the tires.

I didn't start this thread to turn runner against biker. I'm simply trying to raise the awareness that we all need to be more aware as more people are using bikes and running in the same areas. The us versus them battle should still be those in their cars eating fast food versus all of those getting off their fat @sses and getting some exercise (walk, jog, run, skate, ride, etc).

#23 Diep

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Posted 16 June 2006 - 05:25 PM

I think the majority of this discussion is related to bicycles on the selwood sidewalk.

Street signage says: Bicycles on roadway
Sidewalk Sinage says: Walk bicycles on bridge

I have run across this bridge many, many times. Almost every time bicycles and runners have co-existed.

One time someone easily traveling fast enough to ride in traffic ran ME into the traffic.

If someone wants to ride on the sidewalk, fine. But I will not yeild the right of way to someone riding. Read the signs.

As for sprinwater and other multi-use paths. Runners need to stay right, and not take up the whole width etc. Common courtesy rules. The sellwood sidewalk is not a multi-use trail.

#24 NextLizard_Tiger Paul_*

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 07:44 AM

Funny thing is I rode my *bike* over to Duniway yesterday to join Big Al for his 28 miler and rode the bike on the track just to spite the runners... angry.gif

but seriously, Diep's right... a lot of the comments were accumulated frustration at the situation on the Sellwood Bridge. I'm not going to comment on the other incidents w/ cyclists and runners but the stuff on the Sellwood is something I personally experience all the time and it's a serious accident waiting to happen...




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