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#16 BrianH

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 09:44 AM

QUOTE (TDG @ Jul 22 2009, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brian,

There is some GREAT riding out in that area. Head north and east. Here are some web sites that may have some worthy information: mapmyride.com; also go to rubbertotheroad.com

If you google Lewis and Clark Ultra (I think it is landcultra.com but I'm not sure) you can find the course maps from the big ride that I did in May. Lots o' good roads out toward Battleground and Hockinson. Also, you may be able to piece together a loop that takes you through Battleground then south and east to Washougal and back to Camas.

Enjoy!

THANKS DAN!, I'll check it out.

Shannon, if you still want to do this, being it's on Sunday instead of Saturday, maybe you could take a look
at these website and suggest a route. I know nothing of that area.

After talking to an ex-bike racer, last night, I guess I'm best to stick with my 12-25 on the back and my 52 front
and work on increasing my cadence. He was sprinting with a 50-15 and hitting 40+ mph soley(sp) on easier effort peddle RPM's rather than brute forced gearing. He also mentioned that the best way to train for high cadence is down hill riding on a fixed gear (with brakes) bike shocked.png . I don't think I'm THAT serious whistle.png

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#17 figuresc8er

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 22 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After talking to an ex-bike racer, last night, I guess I'm best to stick with my 12-25 on the back and my 52 front
and work on increasing my cadence. He was sprinting with a 50-15 and hitting 40+ mph soley(sp) on easier effort peddle RPM's rather than brute forced gearing.


Huh? poke.gif
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#18 figuresc8er

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 22 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shannon, if you still want to do this, being it's on Sunday instead of Saturday, maybe you could take a look
at these website and suggest a route. I know nothing of that area.


I'm still up for this and have our route already figured out. The last time you and I biked in to Vancouver, we were on the same route but didn't go as far east as Camas.
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#19 hobey

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 22 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After talking to an ex-bike racer, last night, I guess I'm best to stick with my 12-25 on the back and my 52 front
and work on increasing my cadence. He was sprinting with a 50-15 and hitting 40+ mph soley(sp) on easier effort peddle RPM's rather than brute forced gearing. He also mentioned that the best way to train for high cadence is down hill riding on a fixed gear (with brakes) bike shocked.png . I don't think I'm THAT serious whistle.png


What kind of cadence is he maintaining with a 50 in front and a 15 in back? Seriously, according to Sheldon Brown's calculator, a 50-15 at 120 rpm will give you a speed of 31 mph on a flat course. Add pack dynamics and maybe that will give another 1-2 mph.

What kind of gearing are you running for the PIR races? Since it's flat, you'd probably want an 11 in back and at least a 53 in front. I do have a 55-44 FSA crank (170 mm) that I will likely never use. Way too big for me given the type of riding I do. I imagine it would do nicely on flatter courses.
Raquel
"The trouble with cycling up mountains is that after about four minutes, as soon as that first metallic-tasting, lactic gasp rasps inward at the back of your throat, any thoughts of appreciating your surroundings, contemplating the Continental way of life or otherwise entertaining an appropriate holiday mentality have been booted out of your brain by an all-encompassing him-or-you struggle to the death with the force of gravity." -- Tim Moore on the Tour de France

#20 BrianH

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:05 AM

QUOTE (hobey @ Jul 22 2009, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What kind of cadence is he maintaining with a 50 in front and a 15 in back? Seriously, according to Sheldon Brown's calculator, a 50-15 at 120 rpm will give you a speed of 31 mph on a flat course. Add pack dynamics and maybe that will give another 1-2 mph.

What kind of gearing are you running for the PIR races? Since it's flat, you'd probably want an 11 in back and at least a 53 in front. I do have a 55-44 FSA crank (170 mm) that I will likely never use. Way too big for me given the type of riding I do. I imagine it would do nicely on flatter courses.

I put my 11 on the back...something wasn't kosher, the chain was having a tendency of skipping.

I was told to to make an easy 40 mph, and not get exhausted right away, a lower gear ratio, spin and spin fast!
practice to where it is comfortable spinning at 180-200 rpm shocked.png
I'm told it's akin to doing speed work on the track.

I know that when i'm going 35 mph on the flat (52-12), 200 feet to go to the finish, I'm to the point to where I can't put in the push
but I think with a lower gear ratio, hence easier effort, and a faster spin,(i've been reading various articles of the high cadence/low watts
science.) I can pull off a few extra MPH's.
It seems to me that when a couple guys are putting a little ground on me at the finish, they are spinning faster.

I'd like to see if I can find someone to take video of me and the field, on the sprint, and compare the cadence of everyone.

I'll probably rig up a fixed gear bike for practice, but unlike Rizzo's, I'm putting brakes on the back also!
I have no intentions of going over the handle bars going downhill at 45 mph's.

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#21 BrianH

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:06 AM

QUOTE (figuresc8er @ Jul 22 2009, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm still up for this and have our route already figured out. The last time you and I biked in to Vancouver, we were on the same route but didn't go as far east as Camas.

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#22 hobey

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 23 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was told to to make an easy 40 mph, and not get exhausted right away, a lower gear ratio, spin and spin fast!
practice to where it is comfortable spinning at 180-200 rpm shocked.png
I'm told it's akin to doing speed work on the track.

I know that when i'm going 35 mph on the flat (52-12), 200 feet to go to the finish, I'm to the point to where I can't put in the push
but I think with a lower gear ratio, hence easier effort, and a faster spin,(i've been reading various articles of the high cadence/low watts
science.) I can pull off a few extra MPH's.


I'm not sure I buy that argument of ultra-high cadence. What kind of cadence are you maintaining now? If it's not at least 90, then I'd work on that. I would say you'd get more bang for the buck by fixing a cadence in the 90-100, focus on pulling as well as pushing the pedals, and working on generating more power at the same cadence.
Raquel
"The trouble with cycling up mountains is that after about four minutes, as soon as that first metallic-tasting, lactic gasp rasps inward at the back of your throat, any thoughts of appreciating your surroundings, contemplating the Continental way of life or otherwise entertaining an appropriate holiday mentality have been booted out of your brain by an all-encompassing him-or-you struggle to the death with the force of gravity." -- Tim Moore on the Tour de France

#23 BrianH

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 08:02 AM

QUOTE (hobey @ Jul 23 2009, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What kind of cadence are you maintaining now? If it's not at least 90, then I'd work on that. I would say you'd get more bang for the buck by fixing a cadence in the 90-100, focus on pulling as well as pushing the pedals, and working on generating more power at the same cadence.

according to my calculations.
700 wheel = 26 3/4 inch contact tire diameter (what I measured)
52t front ring & 12t back cog = 4.333 gear ratio
36 mph
equates to a thigh burning peddle RPM of 104.
(KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS ONLY FOR THE SPRINT TO THE FINISH, WHICH IS WHERE IT COUNTS)

if I can crank out 150 rpm's I can achieve, greater speed, with supposedly less effort, on the 15t cog.

that's the theory at least.

I may very well find that I'm more built more for mashing(resulting in going to a 53t front ring), then spinning...I just has to do some experimenting.

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#24 TDG

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 08:07 AM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 23 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I put my 11 on the back...something wasn't kosher, the chain was having a tendency of skipping.

I was told to to make an easy 40 mph, and not get exhausted right away, a lower gear ratio, spin and spin fast!
practice to where it is comfortable spinning at 180-200 rpm shocked.png
I'm told it's akin to doing speed work on the track.

I know that when i'm going 35 mph on the flat (52-12), 200 feet to go to the finish, I'm to the point to where I can't put in the push
but I think with a lower gear ratio, hence easier effort, and a faster spin,(i've been reading various articles of the high cadence/low watts
science.) I can pull off a few extra MPH's.
It seems to me that when a couple guys are putting a little ground on me at the finish, they are spinning faster.

I'd like to see if I can find someone to take video of me and the field, on the sprint, and compare the cadence of everyone.

I'll probably rig up a fixed gear bike for practice, but unlike Rizzo's, I'm putting brakes on the back also!
I have no intentions of going over the handle bars going downhill at 45 mph's.


Cadence is one of those personal things. Some people spin really fast and some mash. There is a happy medium, but generally, over time, you will settle in to what is natural. Mashing at 50 RPM isn't good but I don't think being spun out at 180 RPM is good either.

Question: are you completely spun out in your 52-12 when you sprint? Tom Steels used to sprint in his 52-12. Another point of reference: I can spin my 53-12 up to about 47 MPH (downhill of course), after that I am spun out (meaning that it feels like there is no chain on the bike.)

I had an 11 tooth cog on a cassette one time and the only time I used it was when I was flying down the hill from Mt. Bachelor toward Sunriver. I could see needing an 11 tooth cog if you are running a compact crank set in the front with a 50 tooth big chain ring. Then you may need that 11 cog for descending. But think about this: only guys like Cipollini sprint in a 53-11 combo.

You could get a fixie, or you could ride your road bike in one gear without shifting. But, if you build up a fixie, call me because I have a wheel and crankset that I will sell you. Don't bother with a rear brake because the pads will be worn down to nothing after 3 rides.

Another good way to work on smoothness and your pedal stroke is to ride rollers. You can try mine.

What else can I tell you? There is so much information out there that it's mind boggling. Treat it all like a smorgasbord: it's all good, but not all the information is for everyone, at every time. Take a little at a time and see what works for you. I've been racing bikes since 1996 and am still learning! One thing nowadays is that I listen less and less to people because more times than not I've been bitten in the arse by bad advice.

Good luck!

#25 hobey

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 05:47 PM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 23 2009, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
according to my calculations.
700 wheel = 26 3/4 inch contact tire diameter (what I measured)
52t front ring & 12t back cog = 4.333 gear ratio
36 mph
equates to a thigh burning peddle RPM of 104.
(KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS ONLY FOR THE SPRINT TO THE FINISH, WHICH IS WHERE IT COUNTS)

if I can crank out 150 rpm's I can achieve, greater speed, with supposedly less effort, on the 15t cog.

that's the theory at least.

I may very well find that I'm more built more for mashing(resulting in going to a 53t front ring), then spinning...I just has to do some experimenting.


Hmmm...all this sounds like a perfect excuse to get/build another bike. whistle.png poke.gif

Build a track bike for PIR and keep your road bike for everything else. And if you need a 55-44 crank , let me know. I'll likely never use mine.
Raquel
"The trouble with cycling up mountains is that after about four minutes, as soon as that first metallic-tasting, lactic gasp rasps inward at the back of your throat, any thoughts of appreciating your surroundings, contemplating the Continental way of life or otherwise entertaining an appropriate holiday mentality have been booted out of your brain by an all-encompassing him-or-you struggle to the death with the force of gravity." -- Tim Moore on the Tour de France

#26 BrianH

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 11:45 AM

tonights PIR race is going to be...

Mmmm...Mmmm...Mmmm...mmmm...TOASTY!

sweat.gif

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#27 BrianH

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:47 PM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 27 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
tonights PIR race is going to be...

Mmmm...Mmmm...Mmmm...mmmm...TOASTY!

sweat.gif

Ohhhh myyyy that was horrible...
I guess it's good to know there are only 6 stupid mens masters novice bike racers in Portland twitch.gif

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#28 TDG

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (BrianH @ Jul 27 2009, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ohhhh myyyy that was horrible...
I guess it's good to know there are only 6 stupid mens masters novice bike racers in Portland twitch.gif


I imagine it was hot out on that tar. But there was a nice breeze, wasn't there? I went for a run up in N Portland about 4:30-5:30 and it wasn't so bad at all. It's good to get out into the heat, to get used to it.

So tell me, I hope you cracked the top 5 tonight.



#29 BrianH

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 08:39 AM

QUOTE (TDG @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I imagine it was hot out on that tar. But there was a nice breeze, wasn't there? I went for a run up in N Portland about 4:30-5:30 and it wasn't so bad at all. It's good to get out into the heat, to get used to it.

So tell me, I hope you cracked the top 5 tonight.

blush.gif
wasn't even close.
the only thing I managed to crack was the desire to ever do a race in those conditions again. hmm.png

NEXT WEEK i'll get'em thumbsup.png

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#30 allezvita

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 07:44 AM

http://www.nytimes.c.../...wanted=1
"unless you're doing chest compressions, you always have time to go to the bathroom"

"bonum certamen certavi, cursum consumavi, fidem servavi"
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept my word


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when life gives you lemons, add booze




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